Charr in EotN and the rejection of all gods - Guild Wars Forums

syronj · Jan 12, 2011, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I've played the Charr missions in EotN several times through now, but I finally felt like asking about something that Pyre Fierceshot says after overthrowing the shamans. Pyre leads his fellow Charr into proclaiming "There are no gods."

How is this possible to say on the world of Tyria, which demonstrably has many gods? Or is it that Pyre thinks the gods are only humanity's gods, and there are no gods for the Charr? Why shouldn't there be gods for the Charr also, even though the Destroyers and others held forward by the shamans weren't real gods? I hope Guild Wars 2 addresses this issue, because it doesn't make sense for there to be atheists in this fantasy world that has many gods.

Asia Skyly · Jan 12, 2011, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Maybe it is not an atheistic remark, but an antagonistic one. One that is fueled by anger and disappointment above everything else.

syronj · Jan 12, 2011, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asia Skyly

Maybe it is not an atheistic remark, but an antagonistic one. One that is fueled by anger and disappointment above everything else.

That makes sense. But I hope at some point a god or two will express an interest in the Charr. Just because the Charr were fooled by their shamans doesn't mean they have to be atheists forever, any more than humans in Kryta should reject religious belief just because everyone was lied to by the White Mantle.

Wildora Fox · Jan 12, 2011, 07:30 PM // 19:30

What Pyre meant is Charr has no Gods. They don't care about human gods.

Well, only the Flame Legion implemented the idea of Charr Gods, but the other Legions were against it. Flame Legion acted in the name of false gods to justify their actions, that's why the charr "civil" war started.

RedDog91 · Jan 12, 2011, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Different races have different gods and/or god-like figures.

Humans have Balthazar, Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa, Grenth, and Kormir.
The Norn have the Spirits of the Wild (bear, wolf, raven, etc.)
and so on...

The Charr in GW:Prophecies followed the Titans as their gods. The Titans prove to be false gods when they are defeated by the players (humans). In the minds of the Charr, surely something that can be defeated by weak creatures such as humans can't really be gods.
The Charr acknowledge the existence of the human gods, but see them as such... HUMAN Gods.

Pyre says "There are no gods" meaning that the Charr now have no gods.

Dewshine Wildclaw · Jan 12, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Just because one race see these powerful beings as gods does not mean others do, the charr does not deny the fact that Melandru, Balthazar, Grenth and all those are real, they just see them as powerful beings no more godly than the titans or destroyers were. Being failed by such powerful being before and seen them killed, they natural decided they are better off without.
So powerful they may be... but not worthy of prayer and faith.

Some of the same can be said for the other races.

The norn possibly see the human gods as spirits kinda same as their animal spirits, although the animal spirits must be stronger right

And the asura are actually pretty close to being atheists too, the eternal alchemy sounds like a thing and not a person, so not godly. Ofc. it is still believeing in something, but they sure wont call those powerful beings for godly.

So it makes perfect sense really.

Iuris · Jan 12, 2011, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Pyre is not so much denying the existence of entities, but rather their worthiness of worship and the Charr need to worship any gods. Essentially, he's telling the Charr that they should take care of themselves.

The same way a human could, after finishing Nightfall and seeing just how little the gods were willing to help and just how Kormir became a god (seems gods inherit existing power), decide they might as well go to hell and that humanity is better off building city walls rather than temples.

Xenomortis · Jan 12, 2011, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Because why the hell should the Charr worship them?
I admire it.

The Charr found gods because it was through theirs, that Humans managed to drive them out of Ascalon (or so they thought). Really though, the Titans and the Destroyer "successors" were hardly worth worshipping (although the Titans did seem to give the power to breach the Wall).

Humans worship their gods because it was them that brought humans into this world (to fight the Charr). Humans had the backing of the gods and that appeared to grant them great power (magic and all that jazz). Previously the Charr had merely battled with the Forgotten in the quest for dominance.

pomagranite · Jan 13, 2011, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewshine Wildclaw

Just because one race see these powerful beings as gods does not mean others do, the charr does not deny the fact that Melandru, Balthazar, Grenth and all those are real, they just see them as powerful beings no more godly than the titans or destroyers were. Being failed by such powerful being before and seen them killed, they natural decided they are better off without.
So powerful they may be... but not worthy of prayer and faith.

Some of the same can be said for the other races.

The norn possibly see the human gods as spirits kinda same as their animal spirits, although the animal spirits must be stronger right

And the asura are actually pretty close to being atheists too, the eternal alchemy sounds like a thing and not a person, so not godly. Ofc. it is still believeing in something, but they sure wont call those powerful beings for godly.

So it makes perfect sense really.

^^absolutely and exactly correct

Ghull Ka · Jan 13, 2011, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Just like saying "You're dead to me" doesn't actually kill someone... it just lets them know that you want nothing to do with them.

Charr saying "There are no gods" = "Let's all stop praying and use science instead". Or thereabouts.

sykoone · Jan 13, 2011, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Pyre actually says "There are no gods for the Charr!" If you actually take the whole quote, the question pretty much answers itself. The charr followed the titans, and they failed. They tried to follow the destroyers, and they failed. Following gods hasn't led them to victory, so they reject them.

Jan 12, 2011, 06:57 PM // 18:57	#1
syronj Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2007	Charr in EotN and the rejection of all gods I've played the Charr missions in EotN several times through now, but I finally felt like asking about something that Pyre Fierceshot says after overthrowing the shamans. Pyre leads his fellow Charr into proclaiming "There are no gods." How is this possible to say on the world of Tyria, which demonstrably has many gods? Or is it that Pyre thinks the gods are only humanity's gods, and there are no gods for the Charr? Why shouldn't there be gods for the Charr also, even though the Destroyers and others held forward by the shamans weren't real gods? I hope Guild Wars 2 addresses this issue, because it doesn't make sense for there to be atheists in this fantasy world that has many gods.

Jan 12, 2011, 07:30 PM // 19:30	#4
Wildora Fox Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: Nice To Kill You [NTKU] Profession: N/P	What Pyre meant is Charr has no Gods. They don't care about human gods. Well, only the Flame Legion implemented the idea of Charr Gods, but the other Legions were against it. Flame Legion acted in the name of false gods to justify their actions, that's why the charr "civil" war started. Last edited by Wildora Fox; Jan 12, 2011 at 07:33 PM // 19:33..

Jan 12, 2011, 07:04 PM // 19:04	#2
Asia Skyly Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005 Location: California, USA Profession: Mo/	Maybe it is not an atheistic remark, but an antagonistic one. One that is fueled by anger and disappointment above everything else.

Jan 12, 2011, 07:38 PM // 19:38	#5
RedDog91 Desert Nomad Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Farming for Nick gifts Profession: R/	Different races have different gods and/or god-like figures. Humans have Balthazar, Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa, Grenth, and Kormir. The Norn have the Spirits of the Wild (bear, wolf, raven, etc.) and so on... The Charr in GW:Prophecies followed the Titans as their gods. The Titans prove to be false gods when they are defeated by the players (humans). In the minds of the Charr, surely something that can be defeated by weak creatures such as humans can't really be gods. The Charr acknowledge the existence of the human gods, but see them as such... HUMAN Gods. Pyre says "There are no gods" meaning that the Charr now have no gods.

Jan 12, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04	#6
Dewshine Wildclaw Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Planet Earth Guild: Weapons Of Tyria [WoT] Profession: R/	Just because one race see these powerful beings as gods does not mean others do, the charr does not deny the fact that Melandru, Balthazar, Grenth and all those are real, they just see them as powerful beings no more godly than the titans or destroyers were. Being failed by such powerful being before and seen them killed, they natural decided they are better off without. So powerful they may be... but not worthy of prayer and faith. Some of the same can be said for the other races. The norn possibly see the human gods as spirits kinda same as their animal spirits, although the animal spirits must be stronger right And the asura are actually pretty close to being atheists too, the eternal alchemy sounds like a thing and not a person, so not godly. Ofc. it is still believeing in something, but they sure wont call those powerful beings for godly. So it makes perfect sense really.

Jan 12, 2011, 08:48 PM // 20:48	#7
Iuris Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Crazy ducks from the Forest Profession: W/	Pyre is not so much denying the existence of entities, but rather their worthiness of worship and the Charr need to worship any gods. Essentially, he's telling the Charr that they should take care of themselves. The same way a human could, after finishing Nightfall and seeing just how little the gods were willing to help and just how Kormir became a god (seems gods inherit existing power), decide they might as well go to hell and that humanity is better off building city walls rather than temples.

Jan 12, 2011, 10:39 PM // 22:39	#8
Xenomortis Tea Powered Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK Profession: N/	Because why the hell should the Charr worship them? I admire it. The Charr found gods because it was through theirs, that Humans managed to drive them out of Ascalon (or so they thought). Really though, the Titans and the Destroyer "successors" were hardly worth worshipping (although the Titans did seem to give the power to breach the Wall). Humans worship their gods because it was them that brought humans into this world (to fight the Charr). Humans had the backing of the gods and that appeared to grant them great power (magic and all that jazz). Previously the Charr had merely battled with the Forgotten in the quest for dominance.

Jan 13, 2011, 03:03 AM // 03:03	#10
Ghull Ka Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Guild: Grenths Helpdesk Profession: N/	Just like saying "You're dead to me" doesn't actually kill someone... it just lets them know that you want nothing to do with them. Charr saying "There are no gods" = "Let's all stop praying and use science instead". Or thereabouts.

Jan 13, 2011, 05:05 PM // 17:05	#11
sykoone Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Mystical Chaos Profession: E/	Pyre actually says "There are no gods for the Charr!" If you actually take the whole quote, the question pretty much answers itself. The charr followed the titans, and they failed. They tried to follow the destroyers, and they failed. Following gods hasn't led them to victory, so they reject them.